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[Music]

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when you just read on Wikipedia about

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Maxwell they're a little equivocal on

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Wikipedia about whether or not he was a

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spy for Israel and yes that would be the

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kind of stupidity that you know should

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not be shared anywhere you know max was

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not a spy for Israel that's why when

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they buried him under the Mount of

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Olives in Jerusalem that the journey

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leaders who were there that day said he

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had done so much for Israel that

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probably they couldn't talk about them

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in our time well I will read this

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because I think it's a good kickoff to

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our discussion this is on Wikipedia and

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it kind of makes your head spin

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when you read it and it also when you

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read it you think about Epstein -

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because people are asserting a lot of

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similar things about Epstein but it says

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the British Foreign Office suspected

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that Maxwell was a secret agent of a

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foreign government possibly a double

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agent or a triple agent and a thoroughly

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bad character and almost certainly

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financed by Russia he had known links to

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the British Secret Intelligence Service

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mi6 to the KGB and to the Israeli

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intelligence service Mossad that's a lot

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is all that correct well the British

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knew a fair amount about Maxwell and

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they would have done they say he was an

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MP he was a mean one of the leading

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businessmen in Britain and also it has

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to be remembered the British who

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probably had the best buys in Moscow for

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the past half century or more they also

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had some of their own people of the

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Russians of course recruited but they

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almost had the best vice in Moscow and

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they saw the Maxwell flying in and out

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of Moscow and having dinner in the

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Kremlin with KGB chiefs and with you

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know the leaders of the Soviet Union at

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that time they also knew that he was

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flying into other sort of Soviet

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capitals Romania Bulgaria Czechoslovakia

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mi6 tried to recruit Maxwell but fails

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because Maxwell's 'im Allegiance really

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was to to Israel it

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he lost most of his family in the

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Holocaust so he always felt that he had

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an obligation to Israel but I think

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would you have to match that Maxwell is

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almost one could say a kind of

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conflicted character and he's also a

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person with the dual personality on the

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one hand you have probably one of the

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greatest fraudsters of the past sort of

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hundred years I mean a man whose

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activities internationally in terms of

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money laundering was really the template

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for modern-day oligarchs I mean he was

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really one of the first and then at the

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same time you had a guy who was also

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super spy for Israel

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it might maxvill results of feathering

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his own nest so yet someone who is doing

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Israel's bidding and also doing his own

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and Israel was willing to sort of look

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the other way I mean why not I mean

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because of what he gave them I mean he

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got access to everybody within the

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Soviet Union using Americans like the

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the late sort of the senator from Texas

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John Goodman tower he got access to Los

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Alamos and was able to sell Los Alamos

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Sandia laboratories re-engineer software

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that helped Israel build its steel

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America's secrets and builds nuclear

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weapons so let me start by this because

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not everyone is saying exactly what

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you're saying you're saying very

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definitively that he was a spy for

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Mossad so how do you definitively know

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that well first of all the we knew his

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handler found it was one of the sources

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for our book and that was raffia tan and

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raffia tom is one of the most famous of

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all Mossad agents he was the man who

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tracked Don the people that sort of

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mostly Israel was looking for and you

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know he he he was famous within Israel

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itself that wasn't just within Mossad

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raffia tan was a legend and he was the

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one who ran Maxwell when Maxwell was

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stealing marrakesh nuclear secrets from

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from assalam Alamos we also spoke to

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other Mossad agents some who had retired

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and some who'd been

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the decision to assassinate Maxwell so

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you know it wasn't just that that

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grouping with in Mossad itself we also

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had confirmation from other people who

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were connected to Israeli intelligence

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but he denied it his entire life correct

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yeah well nobody really asked Maxwell

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nobody was sort of saying to Maxwell's

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by the way are you a member you know

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nobody really had the audacity to ask

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Maxwell too many questions like that

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anyway and you know a lot of people

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might have suspected that all well he's

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working for you know pretty sure maybe

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he's working for the Americans he was

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working for himself he is working for

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Mossad but also he helped of course the

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KGB because I want to get to KGB so

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bottom line Israeli government has never

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acknowledged it and he's never

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acknowledged it but you're just saying

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you have highly credible sources within

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Mossad that confirmed it to you

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absolutely plus the Israeli government

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in a wave indirectly has confirmed it I

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mean here's a man who was given what was

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an equivalent of state funeral and

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Israel is buried in the Mount of Olives

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most of the Israeli leaders at the time

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were there in 1991 so you know you've

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got some of them saying Maxwell did so

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much for this country that can't really

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be revealed now he's just a businessman

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he's gonna repeat it at all say well he

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set up this company and that company

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when he can would company revealed is

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something that is secret so that was the

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admission that was made on that

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particular day and one Israeli leader

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said you know he strode across the world

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like a colossus but he wasn't his

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nemesis Rupert Murdoch but he still was

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a me know a very big figure

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internationally he owned the Daily News

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in New York he on The Daily Mirror

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London and he had businesses everywhere

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so what what really in your opinion

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drove him what was his passion what was

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extremely important to him in London II

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he was a narcissist he was a man who

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wanted to be he wanted to be sort of

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striding across the world as one of the

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wealthiest men in the world I mean he

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resented the murder because he thought

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he want to be bigger than murder I mean

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Maxwell's always about money no matter

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how he had to acquire it and he what

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about personal convictions personal

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convictions well he was an MP at one

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stage it's hard to know there's only

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personal convictions accident

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it suggests was that he wanted to help

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Israel and he was quite willing to do

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all kinds of things really to get Jews

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out of Russia and he did and he used his

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contact for the KGB to do that so one

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can't sort of separate that from Maxwell

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as it turns with personality he was a

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very important figure in terms of

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rescuing a lot of Jews who were trapped

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within the Soviet Union so we have that

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aspect to him as well and a lot of that

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is really forgotten I suspect and

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writings about Maxwell is not forgotten

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by Israel and that's why of course they

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gave me such a wonderful send-off so he

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was an Oscar Schindler character at

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least half of him yes part of him was he

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he used his contacts with Russian

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oligarchs like semion Mogilevich and

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also with Chris golf who they you know

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was the KGB chief because he was also

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helping KGB launder money and he was

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teaching them how to do it and during

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the the late 80s of course the KGB was

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thinking about the future I'm wondering

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how they were going to get move a lot of

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their ill-gotten gains the different

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parts of the world and Maxwell was the

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expert at moving money into places like

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Cyprus into banks and Switzerland and

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other sort of parts of the world where

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money is hidden by oligarchs now KGB and

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Israeli government doesn't seem in

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Mossad doesn't seem to be thing two

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entities that would cooperate

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so was he working well he was the

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go-between in a way for Israel I mean he

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wasn't ready to go between it for Mossad

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I mean he would represented Israel I

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mean it was the same and when he went to

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Czechoslovakia he would he would sort of

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say well look you know I'm representing

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the State of Israel but never in a soul

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but not in an official capacity

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no unofficial the KGB obviously knew

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that max will work for Mossad but it

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didn't really matter to them I mean he

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was bringing they said if you think

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about bringing a u.s. senator powerful

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US senator

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into Sofia the capital of Bulgaria

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and providing him with prostitutes and

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those prostitutes were provided by the

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Bulgarian Secret Service stars have

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missed signals so the KGB knew the paid

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KGB got a kickback in a way because it

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was able to observe people that max was

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bringing in there and so was building

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compromise in them as well as Maxwell

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building compromise on them so you had

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this kind of duality which service

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served everybody's purpose and Bulgaria

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is so important I think you know it's

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it's forgotten meant in the context of

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the whole Maxwell story Bulgaria is

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probably more significant than any other

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Soviet country at that time because he

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was in Bulgaria he was referred to by

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people there is the king of Bulgaria he

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would fly in he would have dinner with

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the leader of Bulgaria and that was you

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know terrific oath he owned bags in

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Bulgaria

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he owned companies he brought Western I

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mean he sneaked Western technology into

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Bulgaria so could be re-engineered he

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brought the kind of technology in

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Hollywood was using secretly under

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Bulgarians who could be used by the

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Bulgarian film industry my school was at

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everything you can imagine to make money

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that this was the kind of main crooked

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guy who was probably one of the best of

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his time he was able to fly in a night

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of the art will be coming people called

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the iron curtain can you imagine

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nobody flew in there like maxvill decay

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the FBI recognized that one of their

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files in 1950s takes a count of

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Maxwell's activities selling books you

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know because that was very the front

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initially for him to go and sell

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encyclopedias and to sort of endear

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himself to communist leaders by having

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books written about them biographies

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written and published just sort of you

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know make them feel very comfortable

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with them and it stated that he was a

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socialist communist

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what was he politically well I mean this

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is this this would be the sort of the

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British the definition of at one point

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because he was in a Labour MP but I

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don't think that maxvill had any great

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sort of political ambitions or political

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that I don't think ideologically me

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certainly was not

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socialists at all I think Mike's was

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just a crook and so therefore whatever

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he had to do to enhance his reputation

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weathers has become an MP you know

274
00:11:21,630 --> 00:11:19,930
Member of Parliament that helped him it

275
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,640
also helped him in his career it helped

276
00:11:25,769 --> 00:11:23,440
him in his business so everything at

277
00:11:28,290 --> 00:11:25,779
maxilla did really was to further you

278
00:11:30,030 --> 00:11:28,300
know the rich in the rich isn't in the

279
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:30,040
bag of constantly building bigger bank

280
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:32,410
accounts for our friend Maxwell

281
00:11:36,449 --> 00:11:35,680
okay so sorry Los Alamos tell us that

282
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:36,459
story

283
00:11:45,810 --> 00:11:44,050
ah well raffia tan and Maxwell a time

284
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:45,820
with the help of the Justice Department

285
00:11:51,260 --> 00:11:48,610
Stoll promised software and it was a

286
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:51,270
very very advanced software at the time

287
00:11:57,540 --> 00:11:54,250
from install a company in Washington and

288
00:12:00,110 --> 00:11:57,550
it was able to track people so this is

289
00:12:02,460 --> 00:12:00,120
one of the first piece of software

290
00:12:04,199 --> 00:12:02,470
devised for that purpose so the

291
00:12:07,199 --> 00:12:04,209
intelligence community's wanted it the

292
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:07,209
CIA of course stolen but Mossad wanted

293
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:09,250
it and they wanted it for two purposes

294
00:12:12,630 --> 00:12:11,440
hold on let me linear interrupt you just

295
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:12,640
tell you that when I tried to look up

296
00:12:15,540 --> 00:12:14,079
about this promise software it talks

297
00:12:17,490 --> 00:12:15,550
about it being a case management

298
00:12:21,150 --> 00:12:17,500
software used by the Justice Department

299
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:21,160
to track people okay effort was what

300
00:12:25,139 --> 00:12:23,050
what Mossad wanted they wanted it

301
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:25,149
because they wanted to re-engineer it so

302
00:12:31,650 --> 00:12:28,000
raffia time gets can you imagine this a

303
00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:31,660
famous Mossad guy Mossad handler is

304
00:12:36,810 --> 00:12:34,630
handling Maxwell he encouraged the

305
00:12:40,199 --> 00:12:36,820
Justice Department to get him access to

306
00:12:43,319 --> 00:12:40,209
the offices right of inslaw on

307
00:12:47,250 --> 00:12:43,329
Washington he steals from software has

308
00:12:50,790 --> 00:12:47,260
Mossad re-engineer it and then persuades

309
00:12:52,380 --> 00:12:50,800
Maxwell to fly into sandy laboratories

310
00:12:55,170 --> 00:12:52,390
within Los Alamos well it was secret

311
00:12:56,579 --> 00:12:55,180
places in America and he's able to do

312
00:12:59,100 --> 00:12:56,589
that much was able to do that because

313
00:13:01,199 --> 00:12:59,110
he's already bought Senator John tower

314
00:13:02,910 --> 00:13:01,209
from Texas he's already paid him a down

315
00:13:05,069 --> 00:13:02,920
payment of two hundred thousand dollars

316
00:13:08,670 --> 00:13:05,079
just to have him on his payroll right to

317
00:13:11,579 --> 00:13:08,680
have him at his beck and call so he

318
00:13:13,019 --> 00:13:11,589
flies into Sandia and he sells them

319
00:13:14,970 --> 00:13:13,029
promise software but has been

320
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:14,980
re-engineered with a backdoor by Mossad

321
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:17,890
and by the way he also sells that a

322
00:13:23,020 --> 00:13:19,610
whole lot of other countries

323
00:13:24,310 --> 00:13:23,030
he sells it to the Saudis Mossad wants

324
00:13:26,050 --> 00:13:24,320
him to sell it to a lot of people they

325
00:13:27,820 --> 00:13:26,060
don't care these making money out of it

326
00:13:29,710 --> 00:13:27,830
it makes millions artists selling this

327
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:29,720
software and this is stolen from an

328
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:31,490
American company just describe the

329
00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:33,440
software for us a little bit more what

330
00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:34,970
do you mean by it was able to track

331
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:37,670
people it was a software which was built

332
00:13:42,670 --> 00:13:39,970
really firm for tracking people cemented

333
00:13:44,170 --> 00:13:42,680
you could track the track of

334
00:13:46,210 --> 00:13:44,180
conversation you track where people

335
00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:46,220
weren't phones in that kind of thing it

336
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:47,870
was a very very advanced software for

337
00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:50,510
its time so much so that the CIA wanted

338
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:52,160
it because other people wanted to

339
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:54,290
re-engineer it but more but the Mossad

340
00:13:59,020 --> 00:13:56,330
they wanted to re-engineer for a very

341
00:14:00,820 --> 00:13:59,030
specific purpose and that was so they

342
00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:00,830
could put it into other systems sell it

343
00:14:05,620 --> 00:14:02,630
to other intelligence services and build

344
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:05,630
a backdoor into it so they did that and

345
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:07,610
that's how Maxwell was able to sell it

346
00:14:13,660 --> 00:14:09,770
to Sandia laboratories and by the way

347
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:13,670
the FBI was informed about Maxwell's

348
00:14:21,130 --> 00:14:18,050
visits to Sandia and the investigation

349
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:21,140
into that right and the suspicion that

350
00:14:24,910 --> 00:14:22,970
he was up to no good

351
00:14:27,130 --> 00:14:24,920
it was buried now you tell me he was

352
00:14:29,170 --> 00:14:27,140
able to bury that kind of investigation

353
00:14:33,790 --> 00:14:29,180
the files not in my wrist all were

354
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:33,800
shredded and it speaks to other things

355
00:14:37,060 --> 00:14:35,090
you know what you think about you think

356
00:14:38,980 --> 00:14:37,070
about Epstein I mean how can you sort of

357
00:14:40,660 --> 00:14:38,990
bury a lot of stuff we can vary a lot of

358
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:40,670
stuff if you've got the kind of

359
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:42,770
connection to intelligence services max

360
00:14:47,650 --> 00:14:44,510
or higher than I believe Epstein I do

361
00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:47,660
and he also sold it you believe to the

362
00:14:54,130 --> 00:14:51,680
KGB the software yeah he saw the day he

363
00:14:56,950 --> 00:14:54,140
sold it to everybody and why was why

364
00:14:59,680 --> 00:14:56,960
would Israel be ok listen he also sold a

365
00:15:00,760 --> 00:14:59,690
good China so everybody's got the

366
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:00,770
software and everybody's got this

367
00:15:05,190 --> 00:15:03,170
absolutely we're selling it on behalf of

368
00:15:08,020 --> 00:15:05,200
Israel or behalf of himself

369
00:15:10,750 --> 00:15:08,030
both Marshall didn't do anything that

370
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:10,760
didn't give him a kickback everything at

371
00:15:15,970 --> 00:15:13,730
Maxwell did was also for the glory of

372
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:15,980
Robert Maxwell and just to be clear why

373
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:18,170
would Israel be ok with for instance

374
00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:20,770
Soviet Union and trying to having this

375
00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:26,360
know the thing about what max was doing

376
00:15:30,010 --> 00:15:29,270
but he was selling was re-engineered ok

377
00:15:32,350 --> 00:15:30,020
by massa

378
00:15:33,460 --> 00:15:32,360
so the software I had been reading over

379
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:33,470
the back door

380
00:15:37,090 --> 00:15:35,360
so that's why it was being sold so that

381
00:15:37,810 --> 00:15:37,100
they could pull information out of it

382
00:15:40,420 --> 00:15:37,820
right

383
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:40,430
so in KGB's not aware that they're

384
00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:41,930
buying something that has a back door

385
00:15:45,630 --> 00:15:43,760
that I would say I would say it probably

386
00:15:47,710 --> 00:15:45,640
didn't take them too long to find out I

387
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:47,720
would say it didn't take him too long to

388
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:50,240
find out okay so they tolerated Maxwell

389
00:15:56,020 --> 00:15:53,330
because max was Maxwell had a lot of

390
00:15:57,550 --> 00:15:56,030
advantage for them and we remember

391
00:16:00,520 --> 00:15:57,560
you're talking about joint ventures that

392
00:16:03,730 --> 00:16:00,530
Maxwell had with the KGB this is in

393
00:16:06,270 --> 00:16:03,740
terms of companies banks I mean there's

394
00:16:09,130 --> 00:16:06,280
but almost 600 companies that Chris Joe

395
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:09,140
who was a KGB chief at the end of the

396
00:16:14,860 --> 00:16:11,810
80s was sort of building around the

397
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:14,870
world I mean they even asked Maxwell to

398
00:16:19,930 --> 00:16:16,250
get involved and trying to sort of take

399
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:19,940
Don Gorbachev and Mossad sort of much

400
00:16:24,460 --> 00:16:22,850
lamented Mossad said you know they hated

401
00:16:28,990 --> 00:16:24,470
me want me to help them take down that

402
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:29,000
this guy Gorbachev and Mossad said

403
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:30,110
forget it

404
00:16:33,370 --> 00:16:31,730
just get out of that one you're not

405
00:16:34,420 --> 00:16:33,380
gonna get involved we don't want her we

406
00:16:37,270 --> 00:16:34,430
don't want her fingerprints and that

407
00:16:39,340 --> 00:16:37,280
kind of stuff so the oldest is going on

408
00:16:41,140 --> 00:16:39,350
Marshall is quite a character really is

409
00:16:44,230 --> 00:16:41,150
yeah in the meantime you've got his

410
00:16:47,290 --> 00:16:44,240
business side where he's taking on

411
00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:47,300
Rupert Murdoch why his fascination with

412
00:16:52,510 --> 00:16:50,270
taking down or or at least it's a bit

413
00:16:55,810 --> 00:16:52,520
it's been maybe a bit like Trump and and

414
00:16:58,540 --> 00:16:55,820
an Obama you know the Trump sort of has

415
00:17:00,460 --> 00:16:58,550
this obsession with Obama then I'm gonna

416
00:17:03,580 --> 00:17:00,470
be better than him or I'm gonna you know

417
00:17:05,860 --> 00:17:03,590
under undercut him well max wasn't

418
00:17:09,070 --> 00:17:05,870
really able to undercut Murdoch at all

419
00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:09,080
but he saw Murdoch's Empire expanding

420
00:17:13,150 --> 00:17:11,150
and the thing about murder

421
00:17:14,980 --> 00:17:13,160
unlike Maxwell when Maxwell is really

422
00:17:17,290 --> 00:17:14,990
dying and needs a lot of money towards

423
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:17,300
the end of his life he won't do what

424
00:17:21,970 --> 00:17:19,310
Mossad tells him to do so as I said him

425
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:21,980
you know you're your nemesis Murdoch

426
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:24,890
when he was really stuck and he was

427
00:17:30,030 --> 00:17:26,570
about to go bust

428
00:17:34,090 --> 00:17:30,040
he took the advice of the banks and

429
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:34,100
right slowly paid back all his debts but

430
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:35,810
Maxwell wasn't willing to do that max

431
00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:37,310
wasn't willing to go public and he

432
00:17:42,730 --> 00:17:40,390
seemed to be a a guy who was going bust

433
00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:42,740
but that's it and so what Murdoch was

434
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:44,720
always there in his rear view mirror as

435
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:47,450
the man who was you know rising up both

436
00:17:52,990 --> 00:17:49,970
almost in terms of you know building a

437
00:17:55,620 --> 00:17:53,000
big corporation I mean ultimately was

438
00:17:57,759 --> 00:17:55,630
Maxwell a good businessman considering

439
00:18:00,399 --> 00:17:57,769
but the state of his business was when

440
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:00,409
he died well the thing about it is we

441
00:18:04,659 --> 00:18:02,480
don't we don't know it Maxwell hit me

442
00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:04,669
for instance after we wrote the book the

443
00:18:09,460 --> 00:18:07,070
various government approached me because

444
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:09,470
they knew that I had undertaken most of

445
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:12,320
the stuff about the Eastern Europe

446
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:15,049
because my wife is a little garyun

447
00:18:17,799 --> 00:18:16,610
journalist to help me translate a lot of

448
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:17,809
stuff that other people would never have

449
00:18:22,990 --> 00:18:20,690
seen televisions files etc right emotive

450
00:18:25,269 --> 00:18:23,000
the Kremlin and comodo cars having the

451
00:18:32,620 --> 00:18:25,279
seeker in Austin and headquarters in

452
00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:32,630
Sofia so I suspect in a way that that

453
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:36,049
that was the kind of area that appealed

454
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:38,240
the British to the British saw that and

455
00:18:42,039 --> 00:18:40,010
said well talk to this guy Dylan because

456
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:42,049
maybe he hid all his money in Bulgaria

457
00:18:45,490 --> 00:18:44,240
well I don't think he did I think he

458
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:45,500
hidden money in Bulgaria but I think he

459
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:47,450
had money everywhere so they said to me

460
00:18:52,750 --> 00:18:49,850
look can you help us trace his

461
00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:52,760
ill-gotten gains so I really told them

462
00:19:00,580 --> 00:18:56,230
I'm not going to use the word here in

463
00:19:02,860 --> 00:19:00,590
front of you or your audience but I told

464
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:02,870
them where to go but not a very nice way

465
00:19:08,289 --> 00:19:04,850
because they had been running an

466
00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:08,299
operation to investigate Maxwell and his

467
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:11,360
money and they had got nowhere with it

468
00:19:15,399 --> 00:19:13,039
but they never looked in Eastern Europe

469
00:19:16,810 --> 00:19:15,409
I said to them listen if you want to

470
00:19:19,060 --> 00:19:16,820
look somewhere you'd better look in

471
00:19:22,750 --> 00:19:19,070
Eastern Europe not just in Liechtenstein

472
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:22,760
not in Switzerland Nunda cayman islands

473
00:19:29,379 --> 00:19:27,679
non Gibraltar not in Malta but look in

474
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:29,389
Eastern Europe because that's what he

475
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:31,010
spent a lot of his time that's where he

476
00:19:34,779 --> 00:19:32,570
built a lot of his connections and

477
00:19:36,820 --> 00:19:34,789
that's where he learned a lot laundered

478
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:36,830
a lot of his money and look in Bulgaria

479
00:19:40,210 --> 00:19:38,720
particularly because then you're gonna

480
00:19:41,470 --> 00:19:40,220
find the kind of thread you need but

481
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:41,480
you're not getting any help from me

482
00:19:45,549 --> 00:19:43,610
because you didn't give me any help when

483
00:19:49,149 --> 00:19:45,559
I was writing this book so you can get

484
00:19:52,389 --> 00:19:49,159
lost and they didn't they've never

485
00:19:54,129 --> 00:19:52,399
really pursued that the thread and so

486
00:19:57,009 --> 00:19:54,139
therefore we don't know how much Maxwell

487
00:19:58,299 --> 00:19:57,019
heads so he put it in the hands of his

488
00:20:00,820 --> 00:19:58,309
children do you think the children now

489
00:20:03,159 --> 00:20:00,830
have the money it was suggested to me by

490
00:20:04,450 --> 00:20:03,169
very good source that maxvill even

491
00:20:06,159 --> 00:20:04,460
towards the end of his life was always

492
00:20:10,539 --> 00:20:06,169
concerned about building for the future

493
00:20:12,639 --> 00:20:10,549
of Maxwell generations you know in

494
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:12,649
decades and decades to come in other

495
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:15,200
words the future of the Maxwell lineage

496
00:20:19,389 --> 00:20:16,850
that that's where he was concerned about

497
00:20:22,029 --> 00:20:19,399
and so he was gonna hide money so that

498
00:20:26,049 --> 00:20:22,039
money would be available maybe 20 30 40

499
00:20:28,210 --> 00:20:26,059
50 years ahead so what what happened to

500
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:28,220
his money we don't know was he busy

501
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:30,529
busting his bust in that stance Amedeo

502
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:32,450
do something like with five hundred

503
00:20:37,899 --> 00:20:35,510
million he he was really heavily in debt

504
00:20:39,879 --> 00:20:37,909
he was going to be charged there's no

505
00:20:42,970 --> 00:20:39,889
dog even standing high in a court in

506
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:42,980
London and the Old Bailey as a common

507
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:45,049
criminal I mean and also who would have

508
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:46,730
commodified him would have been so

509
00:20:50,860 --> 00:20:49,130
shocking it would have damaged the whole

510
00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:50,870
sort of Jewish community and in England

511
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:53,529
with a new degree of anti-semitism and

512
00:20:57,610 --> 00:20:55,610
opposition and Maxwell in a way because

513
00:21:00,009 --> 00:20:57,620
it was Jewish you you believe that

514
00:21:01,870 --> 00:21:00,019
charges were being prepared at the time

515
00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:01,880
of his death oh I think they were

516
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:03,529
looking at him big time they were

517
00:21:06,970 --> 00:21:05,360
looking at him they wanted to take him

518
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:06,980
done and what would it be a lot of

519
00:21:10,590 --> 00:21:08,570
people who hated Maxwell they didn't

520
00:21:13,180 --> 00:21:10,600
just hate him because he he was a

521
00:21:16,210 --> 00:21:13,190
crooked businessman there was that

522
00:21:18,580 --> 00:21:16,220
anti-semitic character too also maybe we

523
00:21:21,310 --> 00:21:18,590
shouldn't sort of you know ignore that I

524
00:21:23,590 --> 00:21:21,320
think it's it's true and it's something

525
00:21:25,779 --> 00:21:23,600
I observed and and looking to the whole

526
00:21:27,129 --> 00:21:25,789
sort of actual story but they were going

527
00:21:29,379 --> 00:21:27,139
to take him down he would have don't

528
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:29,389
tell him because this was such a massive

529
00:21:34,930 --> 00:21:32,510
crime he had defrauded the pension funds

530
00:21:37,419 --> 00:21:34,940
of the Daily Mirror in other words he

531
00:21:39,340 --> 00:21:37,429
hadn't robbed 30,000 members of the

532
00:21:42,190 --> 00:21:39,350
staff that the Daily murdered newspapers

533
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:42,200
of their pensions that really was the

534
00:21:46,810 --> 00:21:44,240
kind of scandals he maybe he thought he

535
00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:46,820
was gonna pay it back but Mossad was not

536
00:21:51,690 --> 00:21:48,590
going to give him that money and neither

537
00:21:54,039 --> 00:21:51,700
was anyone else and neither was you know

538
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:54,049
Malevich and all these other figures

539
00:21:58,570 --> 00:21:56,210
that he was doing business with and he

540
00:22:00,399 --> 00:21:58,580
couldn't pull money out adventures and

541
00:22:01,779 --> 00:22:00,409
he couldn't be seen to be pulling money

542
00:22:03,340 --> 00:22:01,789
from a lot of other places he had it

543
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:03,350
because it would exposed where he'd

544
00:22:06,940 --> 00:22:05,360
hidden his money so he was left with one

545
00:22:08,830 --> 00:22:06,950
choice and that was to say to Mossad

546
00:22:10,779 --> 00:22:08,840
look you're gonna have to bail me out

547
00:22:13,140 --> 00:22:10,789
here you don't want me sort of standing

548
00:22:14,970 --> 00:22:13,150
hind dog

549
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:14,980
look what it's gonna do and I might have

550
00:22:20,190 --> 00:22:18,090
to sort of you know I might have to talk

551
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:20,200
another Bettina sort of threatening

552
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:23,650
Mossad he didn't say specifically when

553
00:22:27,390 --> 00:22:25,330
it would talk about but they knew they

554
00:22:28,650 --> 00:22:27,400
discussed it with in Mossad and they

555
00:22:31,530 --> 00:22:28,660
said look this guy is becoming very

556
00:22:34,620 --> 00:22:31,540
unstable so you know what are we gonna

557
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:34,630
do about him we can't let him go to

558
00:22:39,150 --> 00:22:37,210
court look at the kind of you know story

559
00:22:41,610 --> 00:22:39,160
that's gonna become worldwide what's

560
00:22:42,930 --> 00:22:41,620
gonna do for the State of Israel because

561
00:22:44,790 --> 00:22:42,940
he had businesses in he brought

562
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:44,800
businesses into Israel and he was

563
00:22:49,470 --> 00:22:47,370
regarded as a hero in Israel so

564
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:49,480
something's the first time get had this

565
00:22:56,910 --> 00:22:52,210
is really hero you know standing in

566
00:23:01,290 --> 00:22:56,920
shackles in a London Court how my god is

567
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:01,300
is scary for Israel these internal

568
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:02,650
discussions at Mossad that you're

569
00:23:06,450 --> 00:23:04,690
referring to they were held in a very

570
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:06,460
very secret level and they were held

571
00:23:11,070 --> 00:23:08,320
within a very very tight group of people

572
00:23:14,550 --> 00:23:11,080
and what is your source for those the

573
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:14,560
silverstern Mossad people understand

574
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:18,640
more what was the first time source who

575
00:23:22,290 --> 00:23:20,410
actually talked to us right about the

576
00:23:25,710 --> 00:23:22,300
kind of discussion that had gone on and

577
00:23:27,630 --> 00:23:25,720
in bottom line he told you that Maxwell

578
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:27,640
had come to them told him about his

579
00:23:30,870 --> 00:23:29,170
financial predicament yes

580
00:23:32,550 --> 00:23:30,880
told them that if you don't help bail me

581
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:32,560
out this is going to go down very poorly

582
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:33,910
for all of us yes

583
00:23:38,190 --> 00:23:36,400
and so the most I feel was we can't

584
00:23:41,190 --> 00:23:38,200
really you know we can't tolerate this

585
00:23:43,220 --> 00:23:41,200
about this so what happens what happens

586
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:43,230
next is you have to get rid of the guy

587
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:45,490
but then you have to plan it very very

588
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:48,850
carefully and Mossad plants think very

589
00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:50,610
very carefully I mean it's one of those

590
00:23:55,650 --> 00:23:54,370
organizations a bit like KGB in some

591
00:23:59,490 --> 00:23:55,660
ways but I think probably much more

592
00:24:01,800 --> 00:23:59,500
effective much more professional they

593
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:01,810
have their own poisons they know they

594
00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:03,610
they rarely get caught doing it they get

595
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:06,670
caught in one occasion trying to kill a

596
00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:10,270
leadings for a Palestinian and they they

597
00:24:17,940 --> 00:24:13,360
jabbed him in the neck with a with a

598
00:24:20,460 --> 00:24:17,950
serum but Netanyahu was forced by the

599
00:24:22,020 --> 00:24:20,470
king of Jordan to fly of an antidote in

600
00:24:23,670 --> 00:24:22,030
right away because king of Jordan had

601
00:24:25,710 --> 00:24:23,680
this conversation with him I heard it I

602
00:24:29,370 --> 00:24:25,720
mean I heard a copy of it

603
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:29,380
phone call and which he called Netanyahu

604
00:24:33,870 --> 00:24:32,230
everything beginning with s and said you

605
00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:33,880
know I will ring Madeleine Albright and

606
00:24:41,310 --> 00:24:36,580
I won't really take you down right and

607
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:41,320
so Netanyahu puts someone on a claim and

608
00:24:48,090 --> 00:24:44,610
they flew in the serum and this guy was

609
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:48,100
this guy lived and the Mossad team that

610
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:51,010
have been captured it was was released

611
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:53,050
and in the French custody

612
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:55,330
so the the Mossad does think in a very

613
00:25:01,500 --> 00:24:58,330
very special way so they build a team

614
00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:01,510
really to take Maxwell Lloyd and they

615
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:03,400
were kind of there's a suspicion that

616
00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:05,410
they were promising him that he would

617
00:25:10,890 --> 00:25:08,680
get the money because didn't the night

618
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:10,900
that's the the night they disappeared

619
00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:13,450
off his boat there are certain phone

620
00:25:19,020 --> 00:25:16,360
calls which are very very suspicious so

621
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:19,030
they may have sort of laid you know had

622
00:25:24,090 --> 00:25:21,610
him trail along until they were ready to

623
00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:24,100
take him on and they had a team in the

624
00:25:28,290 --> 00:25:26,500
water we got onto the back of the boat I

625
00:25:30,810 --> 00:25:28,300
mean it was this sort of story that

626
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:30,820
Maxwell fell off the side well if you

627
00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:36,850
see the boat and you look at the sort of

628
00:25:39,690 --> 00:25:38,230
the railings installed with the other

629
00:25:42,510 --> 00:25:39,700
railings what the pathologist's had to

630
00:25:43,980 --> 00:25:42,520
say in their investigations then you

631
00:25:46,290 --> 00:25:43,990
realize it in fall off the back of the

632
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:46,300
boat there was no way and he wasn't

633
00:25:49,980 --> 00:25:47,530
there was no indication he was drunk

634
00:25:52,860 --> 00:25:49,990
that night either yeah nothing found in

635
00:25:54,420 --> 00:25:52,870
his system I read we've lived yet he

636
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:54,430
went off around 4:30 in the morning

637
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:56,080
right yeah you wouldn't know there's

638
00:25:59,310 --> 00:25:57,850
anything unusual to find in the system

639
00:26:00,980 --> 00:25:59,320
by the way I mean if the Israelis used

640
00:26:03,390 --> 00:26:00,990
to you know which we were told they did

641
00:26:07,070 --> 00:26:03,400
if they jabbed him run put him in the

642
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:07,080
water then nothing would have been found

643
00:26:13,470 --> 00:26:10,390
the autopsy in Spain was it just a joke

644
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:13,480
then there was one held in Israel by and

645
00:26:19,740 --> 00:26:16,330
the pathologist was good at his it was a

646
00:26:21,150 --> 00:26:19,750
friend of the Maxwell family and then

647
00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:21,160
the brady the prettiest brought in of

648
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:23,860
course they brought in their expert as

649
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:27,520
well they didn't who didn't realize the

650
00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:29,110
fact that the possibility of maximal

651
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:30,640
could be murdered so you had these sort

652
00:26:37,380 --> 00:26:34,240
of conflicting pathologist reports as

653
00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:37,390
well but Mossad we were told Masai took

654
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:38,230
him time

655
00:26:43,890 --> 00:26:42,010
and I think that by members of Mossad we

656
00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:43,900
were told that yes yes people who had

657
00:26:49,290 --> 00:26:47,590
first-hand knowledge first person one

658
00:26:51,090 --> 00:26:49,300
person who was close to the

659
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:51,100
decision-making process and put another

660
00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:54,370
higher than that and we when we spoke to

661
00:26:58,920 --> 00:26:56,350
raffia town about it Rafi Eitan said yes

662
00:27:02,040 --> 00:26:58,930
you guys are right but he said I'm not

663
00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:02,050
gonna go on the record to say everything

664
00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:04,020
wasn't there when this decision was made

665
00:27:09,090 --> 00:27:06,280
Rafi it's hard work with Maxwell he

666
00:27:12,450 --> 00:27:09,100
wasn't his he wasn't as great fan but he

667
00:27:15,270 --> 00:27:12,460
worked with the muses handler a lot of

668
00:27:17,130 --> 00:27:15,280
people work with Maxwell and find him

669
00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:17,140
you know a rather sort of disreputable

670
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:19,390
figure he wasn't a pleasant man to be

671
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:21,610
around I mean here's a man he would sit

672
00:27:26,610 --> 00:27:23,650
with a sort of bowl of caviar and eat it

673
00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:26,620
with his hands he had some disgusting

674
00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:29,500
habits even he was sloppy let's put it

675
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:32,830
that way but I think urinating off a

676
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:35,710
building I heard well easy diddly did a

677
00:27:38,430 --> 00:27:36,850
lot of things a lot of stories but

678
00:27:41,220 --> 00:27:38,440
Maxwell I mean there's someone powerful

679
00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:41,230
of course but and some are not too far

680
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:43,030
from the truth anyway but related to

681
00:27:47,370 --> 00:27:45,310
that the story goes that he used to like

682
00:27:50,130 --> 00:27:47,380
to urinate off of his boat and hence the

683
00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:50,140
speculation that you know middle of the

684
00:27:53,730 --> 00:27:52,510
night he falls in Maxwell in his in his

685
00:27:57,210 --> 00:27:53,740
apartment London

686
00:27:59,400 --> 00:27:57,220
I mean after going to the bathroom he

687
00:28:00,750 --> 00:27:59,410
cleaned himself with napkins and just

688
00:28:02,820 --> 00:28:00,760
left them on the floor for the women

689
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:02,830
that the maids who can to come and clean

690
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:06,490
them up that was Maxwell I mean he was a

691
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:09,010
bit of a slob in many ways but the

692
00:28:13,140 --> 00:28:10,960
interesting thing he was also this

693
00:28:15,660 --> 00:28:13,150
towering figure you can imagine him

694
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:15,670
flying into Bulgaria and his big sort of

695
00:28:21,420 --> 00:28:18,910
jet the king of Bulgaria you know

696
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:21,430
getting out there's a big limo there and

697
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:24,010
there are security guards ready for him

698
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:26,110
and they're taking the dinner he he

699
00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:28,510
actually took his his yacht the lady he

700
00:28:32,580 --> 00:28:31,030
could land up into the Black Sea and

701
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:32,590
nobody went into the Black Sea I mean

702
00:28:40,350 --> 00:28:37,210
was it was so heavily secured by Soviet

703
00:28:42,210 --> 00:28:40,360
Union countries by Russia by Bulgaria

704
00:28:43,620 --> 00:28:42,220
and he went up there did one of the

705
00:28:45,330 --> 00:28:43,630
palaces of Todor Zhivkov

706
00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:45,340
because he they just wanted shortest

707
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:47,310
whites from the sea

708
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:51,370
Maxwell was he was a kind of strange

709
00:28:56,190 --> 00:28:53,710
figure for the first time but also very

710
00:28:58,590 --> 00:28:56,200
clever I mean no one can ever

711
00:29:01,620 --> 00:28:58,600
underestimate what max will did okay so

712
00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:01,630
walk us through what you believe happens

713
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:06,070
that early morning that early morning I

714
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:08,170
think that with max a wizard was

715
00:29:14,430 --> 00:29:09,850
encouraged to come out on that deck

716
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:14,440
could take a phone call and it's the

717
00:29:18,510 --> 00:29:15,970
team that was already in the water

718
00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:18,520
they'd been monitoring the boat the

719
00:29:24,810 --> 00:29:22,000
Israelis from Gibraltar and the team

720
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:24,820
they got on and they jabbed him with a

721
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:27,250
serum and then put his body into the

722
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:29,770
water and this was a this was a

723
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:34,510
specialist Mossad head team so the thing

724
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:37,210
is that you know when you take a look at

725
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:40,240
maxvill and you say well what would have

726
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:43,840
happened if they hadn't killed him then

727
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:47,370
you realize why they felt they needed to

728
00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:50,650
at the time the felt that they didn't

729
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:52,720
really have a choice because maxvill was

730
00:29:59,130 --> 00:29:55,840
going down he had really reached the the

731
00:30:00,780 --> 00:29:59,140
pit you know of his abilities I mean

732
00:30:03,419 --> 00:30:00,790
there was nothing left for max well he

733
00:30:06,210 --> 00:30:03,429
knew that he was he was a bud to be

734
00:30:10,020 --> 00:30:06,220
wrapped up the British were were ready

735
00:30:12,419 --> 00:30:10,030
to move on because they knew about the

736
00:30:13,620 --> 00:30:12,429
pent the pension funds so I think that

737
00:30:14,220 --> 00:30:13,630
that would have been the end of it from

738
00:30:18,690 --> 00:30:14,230
excellent

739
00:30:20,549 --> 00:30:18,700
but his in a way his reputation lives on

740
00:30:22,380 --> 00:30:20,559
that lived on Bulgaria Oh give me

741
00:30:25,980 --> 00:30:22,390
example when our book was published in

742
00:30:28,620 --> 00:30:25,990
Bulgaria and I sat down for lunch this

743
00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:28,630
summer and so in the Bulgarian capital

744
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:31,870
Sophia and I sat down with a meeting

745
00:30:36,150 --> 00:30:34,960
let's see your intelligence figure and

746
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:36,160
he said to me when your book came out

747
00:30:45,090 --> 00:30:40,570
about Maxwell he said former communists

748
00:30:47,310 --> 00:30:45,100
who were in league with Maxwell in terms

749
00:30:50,250 --> 00:30:47,320
of his businesses joint ventures money

750
00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:50,260
laundering they pressed the secret

751
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:53,110
service in Bulgaria bury your book in

752
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:55,090
other words to make sure that it was

753
00:30:58,620 --> 00:30:56,320
only stole that kind of gas stations

754
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,630
wasn't sold in big shops didn't win the

755
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:00,080
libraries

756
00:31:05,230 --> 00:31:02,330
and also the same thing happened really

757
00:31:06,580 --> 00:31:05,240
in the in the US the book was leaked to

758
00:31:08,950 --> 00:31:06,590
the Maxwell family

759
00:31:12,539 --> 00:31:08,960
Isabel Maxwell took up the copy of the

760
00:31:15,370 --> 00:31:12,549
manuscript of our book went to Israel

761
00:31:18,669 --> 00:31:15,380
showed it to David Kim she a former head

762
00:31:20,110 --> 00:31:18,679
of Mossad showed it to Shimon Peres or

763
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:20,120
prime minister who's a friend of the

764
00:31:26,220 --> 00:31:22,730
family and then went and took it to

765
00:31:28,269 --> 00:31:26,230
raffia tan one of our sources and

766
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:28,279
Ralphie told her Riddhi does the bugger

767
00:31:33,570 --> 00:31:31,519
off because she said we want you to sort

768
00:31:36,970 --> 00:31:33,580
of come out and deny what's in this book

769
00:31:38,649 --> 00:31:36,980
so that was late now who leaked it it

770
00:31:40,750 --> 00:31:38,659
was supposed to be under wraps it was

771
00:31:44,889 --> 00:31:40,760
kept under wraps in London but it wasn't

772
00:31:46,269 --> 00:31:44,899
kept under wraps by Carolyn grouse the

773
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:46,279
publisher in New York and I the only

774
00:31:51,009 --> 00:31:48,320
person I dealt with in Calgary was

775
00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:51,019
Herman delay Herman graph and the book

776
00:31:56,049 --> 00:31:54,830
got one major interview and that was

777
00:32:01,720 --> 00:31:56,059
really about it on the Today programme

778
00:32:03,850 --> 00:32:01,730
and we discovered really that NBC under

779
00:32:06,159 --> 00:32:03,860
pressure and Maxwell family when the

780
00:32:09,659 --> 00:32:06,169
book came out was going to go and do a

781
00:32:12,269 --> 00:32:09,669
kind of hit job in the book by going to

782
00:32:14,860 --> 00:32:12,279
Israel and doing a documentary on

783
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:14,870
Maxwell and it's burial of where he was

784
00:32:20,669 --> 00:32:16,480
buried and what a wonderful guy he was

785
00:32:22,990 --> 00:32:20,679
so we confronted NBC and they backed off

786
00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:23,000
and all Graf wanted to know what mean

787
00:32:27,129 --> 00:32:24,470
before the book was published as a are

788
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:27,139
you gonna blame my side so I told him

789
00:32:33,430 --> 00:32:30,769
nothing until he got the manuscript but

790
00:32:35,110 --> 00:32:33,440
you know but this kind of thing happened

791
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:35,120
so it won't interfere and I was told

792
00:32:42,310 --> 00:32:36,610
Matt Lauer didn't want to interview me

793
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:42,320
so it was left to Katie Couric you know

794
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:43,730
the first thing he Couric said to me

795
00:32:47,470 --> 00:32:46,010
before the interview she was sort of

796
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:47,480
puzzled I mean she's sort of looking at

797
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:50,090
me ask me about my science whatever but

798
00:32:55,870 --> 00:32:54,559
the thing is that I I suspect there are

799
00:32:58,090 --> 00:32:55,880
a lot of things that happen aside from

800
00:33:00,700 --> 00:32:58,100
the book that were meaningful there were

801
00:33:05,470 --> 00:33:00,710
threats made right to my apartment a org

802
00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:05,480
my wife my computer is heart Anonymous

803
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:08,590
yeah my yeah my car is broken into I

804
00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:12,110
spoke to the FBI but but if the rats

805
00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:13,180
because I had to

806
00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:16,510
by that stage I I had cards documents

807
00:33:21,210 --> 00:33:17,860
that I didn't want to be sitting around

808
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:21,220
with in New York because I realized that

809
00:33:25,770 --> 00:33:22,480
there were certain it's been like when I

810
00:33:28,110 --> 00:33:25,780
was thinking of writing the we're almost

811
00:33:29,670 --> 00:33:28,120
writing the the Epstein book I've begun

812
00:33:31,650 --> 00:33:29,680
to realize that you know there are there

813
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:31,660
problems here so I went off to Ireland

814
00:33:35,730 --> 00:33:33,970
for the Maxwell book derided with Gordon

815
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:35,740
Thomas in the wick and Whitlow way

816
00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:37,810
outside Dublin and then I get these

817
00:33:42,930 --> 00:33:40,660
calls my wife about you know threats to

818
00:33:44,910 --> 00:33:42,940
her and I kind of knew whether we're

819
00:33:46,980 --> 00:33:44,920
comment from there were people really

820
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:46,990
seriously concerned about what we were

821
00:33:51,570 --> 00:33:48,730
going to publish so when the book does

822
00:33:54,830 --> 00:33:51,580
come out it gets very very little

823
00:33:57,060 --> 00:33:54,840
American public read doesn't see the

824
00:33:58,590 --> 00:33:57,070
kind of publicity that should have been

825
00:34:00,000 --> 00:33:58,600
there for the book just wasn't there I

826
00:34:03,530 --> 00:34:00,010
mean here's a guy stole America's

827
00:34:07,140 --> 00:34:06,420
about how about what Alan Dershowitz had

828
00:34:08,490 --> 00:34:07,150
to say about it

829
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:08,500
well there so let's here's the

830
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:09,760
interesting thing and you didn't love

831
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:14,530
this story because in 2010/11 I decide

832
00:34:19,890 --> 00:34:16,210
I'm gonna write a book and Jeffrey

833
00:34:21,690 --> 00:34:19,900
Epstein and everything's name I knew

834
00:34:24,030 --> 00:34:21,700
because Epstein's name had come up when

835
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:24,040
our book was published because the book

836
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:28,090
was published in 2001 2002 so you have

837
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:30,490
this guy there service I know by

838
00:34:33,450 --> 00:34:31,930
attacking the book he's the most

839
00:34:36,030 --> 00:34:33,460
prominent figure comes out it's not the

840
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:36,040
book he wrote a review of the book when

841
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:38,530
it came out in 2002 yeah and he hammered

842
00:34:41,610 --> 00:34:39,130
it right

843
00:34:42,870 --> 00:34:41,620
but who knew several times it was the

844
00:34:45,390 --> 00:34:42,880
thing was the Washington Times The

845
00:34:48,270 --> 00:34:45,400
Washington Post and here's the thing I

846
00:34:50,730 --> 00:34:48,280
have steam there sorry about dirtiest

847
00:34:52,890 --> 00:34:50,740
derivates was connected to Epstein and

848
00:34:56,370 --> 00:34:52,900
whose Epstein's lover at that time

849
00:35:00,540 --> 00:34:56,380
Norfolk is the Madam's wealth fixer it

850
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:00,550
was Glenn Maxwell so they done their

851
00:35:05,010 --> 00:35:02,490
service to come out and attack the book

852
00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:05,020
he was the only one but he was the most

853
00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:06,700
prominent person and what was his

854
00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:09,430
primary critique of the book oh just to

855
00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:11,590
dismiss it yeah yellow book kind of you

856
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:12,420
know that's it

857
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:15,610
other words they see not true that he

858
00:35:18,570 --> 00:35:17,170
worked from a song don't don't read

859
00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:18,580
don't don't read this no this is true

860
00:35:23,220 --> 00:35:21,730
this is just fanciful and we you know

861
00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:23,230
people will say probably the same thing

862
00:35:25,590 --> 00:35:24,670
not but Epstein well he couldn't have

863
00:35:27,330 --> 00:35:25,600
been

864
00:35:29,610 --> 00:35:27,340
connected to the intelligence community

865
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:29,620
in any way but it's interesting that

866
00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:32,170
that's order of its first surfaces for

867
00:35:37,470 --> 00:35:35,350
me in terms of of Epstein and you know

868
00:35:40,650 --> 00:35:37,480
this comes back to my mind a game and I

869
00:35:43,140 --> 00:35:40,660
begin looking at Epstein in 2010 eight

870
00:35:46,110 --> 00:35:43,150
years later you know and I remember I

871
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:46,120
think I remember that this guy Epstein

872
00:35:50,850 --> 00:35:48,850
because he was connected to Dershowitz

873
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:50,860
because murder submits to talk the book

874
00:35:55,380 --> 00:35:53,530
I had to ask people why would Dershowitz

875
00:35:59,900 --> 00:35:55,390
target and they said well because Glenn

876
00:36:02,520 --> 00:35:59,910
Maxwell is linked to his buddy

877
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:02,530
Epstein and their services his lawyer

878
00:36:07,830 --> 00:36:06,010
would Epstein have ever met Maxwell now

879
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:07,840
this is something I really should clear

880
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:11,040
up for you there people saying that

881
00:36:16,220 --> 00:36:13,450
Epstein Numa Robert Maxwell

882
00:36:19,530 --> 00:36:16,230
there's absolutely no evidence of that I

883
00:36:20,970 --> 00:36:19,540
mean people have said that Maxim was

884
00:36:23,580 --> 00:36:20,980
well versed of the saying there's no

885
00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:23,590
evidence of that but you know was there

886
00:36:30,090 --> 00:36:26,350
was out there but the Epstein Maxwell

887
00:36:32,850 --> 00:36:30,100
Nexus not at all the connection to

888
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:32,860
Maxwell if you want one is ghilane

889
00:36:36,450 --> 00:36:35,170
Maxwell in the sense that I think she's

890
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:36,460
the glue that holds a lot of this

891
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:38,650
together in terms of Epstein and the

892
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:40,570
fact that you'd find the same parallels

893
00:36:44,610 --> 00:36:42,130
in Epstein's life we should find in

894
00:36:46,650 --> 00:36:44,620
Maxwell's because I believe that FST was

895
00:36:48,330 --> 00:36:46,660
a money launderer I mean people say well

896
00:36:50,070 --> 00:36:48,340
where did all this money come from where

897
00:36:51,540 --> 00:36:50,080
did all Maxwell's money come from it

898
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:51,550
didn't come from the Daily Mirror in

899
00:36:57,330 --> 00:36:54,850
company Daily News McCann from money

900
00:36:59,310 --> 00:36:57,340
laundering I came from shady shady

901
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:59,320
schemes and I think that's the same with

902
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:00,880
the Epstein and no one really asked

903
00:37:05,820 --> 00:37:03,850
where I abstain got his money and also

904
00:37:07,890 --> 00:37:05,830
what what money exists out there that

905
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:07,900
Epstein is hidden just as much away

906
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:09,730
Epstein was Epstein was doing the same

907
00:37:13,710 --> 00:37:11,440
kind of thing in remember he was flying

908
00:37:17,550 --> 00:37:13,720
in and out of countries all over the

909
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:17,560
world with ease he was flying into New

910
00:37:22,350 --> 00:37:20,170
Jersey I mean I looked at the I had by

911
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:22,360
the way I had copies of the flight logs

912
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:24,730
Epstein's flight logs I don't think

913
00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:27,130
about them it struck me was what kind of

914
00:37:32,130 --> 00:37:29,500
part is this guy have them these flight

915
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:32,140
logs the girls were on the flights

916
00:37:37,290 --> 00:37:33,850
their names are just sort of first names

917
00:37:39,090 --> 00:37:37,300
so I was trying to match those names

918
00:37:42,060 --> 00:37:39,100
against the names of girls on you

919
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:42,070
who'd appeared in the in the affidavits

920
00:37:45,690 --> 00:37:44,290
and and and other statements that had

921
00:37:48,090 --> 00:37:45,700
been made about him at the time he was

922
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:48,100
in Florida been charged from Florida so

923
00:37:52,050 --> 00:37:49,450
he was able to come in and out of the

924
00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:52,060
United States almost at will anybody is

925
00:37:56,850 --> 00:37:53,950
able to do that has to have some very

926
00:37:59,610 --> 00:37:56,860
very powerful connections and of course

927
00:38:03,390 --> 00:37:59,620
he's also in these aboard a hood Baraka

928
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:03,400
no spelling software and it's

929
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:05,050
interesting is the Maxell ISM wasn't the

930
00:38:10,590 --> 00:38:08,110
software business to and they also I

931
00:38:12,930 --> 00:38:10,600
think Epstein built compromise as they

932
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:12,940
Russians call it the criminais ting

933
00:38:16,890 --> 00:38:14,770
evidence on people and Michael did the

934
00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:16,900
same he did the same but Senator John

935
00:38:21,510 --> 00:38:18,910
tower and other figures when did he

936
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:21,520
first connect with ghilane he connected

937
00:38:26,010 --> 00:38:23,890
with Galan in the 90s right up she came

938
00:38:28,860 --> 00:38:26,020
to she was 31 when her father died she

939
00:38:32,670 --> 00:38:28,870
ends up at New York and remember she had

940
00:38:34,770 --> 00:38:32,680
lots of connections in New York McRobert

941
00:38:37,950 --> 00:38:34,780
Mocksville used to fly into New York on

942
00:38:40,590 --> 00:38:37,960
his Jed but send his boat the lady

943
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:40,600
ghilane across the Atlantic pocket on

944
00:38:44,670 --> 00:38:42,610
the East River under the UN building and

945
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:44,680
then invite the high-and-mighty in New

946
00:38:46,830 --> 00:38:45,040
York

947
00:38:49,470 --> 00:38:46,840
Clinton you name it they were all there

948
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:49,480
and they were all on his yacht for his

949
00:38:53,850 --> 00:38:51,250
sort of expensive parties with the

950
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:53,860
caviar flowing they that don't pair in

951
00:38:59,250 --> 00:38:55,690
your the crystal probably don't turn you

952
00:39:02,700 --> 00:38:59,260
on that time and Trump was on one of

953
00:39:05,670 --> 00:39:02,710
those parties so she had access to all

954
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:05,680
of these people and remember our friend

955
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:06,730
Epstein

956
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:11,170
people like Steven Hoffenberg in Wall

957
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:14,770
Street and Hochberg says that he he and

958
00:39:19,410 --> 00:39:16,690
Epstein were involved you know and

959
00:39:21,540 --> 00:39:19,420
laundering about 1.5 billion I think it

960
00:39:23,940 --> 00:39:21,550
is and Hulkenberg ended up in upstate

961
00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:23,950
New York and a federal prison and he was

962
00:39:29,970 --> 00:39:26,230
there at the time that Epstein was in

963
00:39:34,110 --> 00:39:29,980
Florida be charged so Elaine Maxwell had

964
00:39:36,540 --> 00:39:34,120
all the teams the glue she though it was

965
00:39:38,340 --> 00:39:36,550
with less Wexner at the time right yes

966
00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:38,350
he was he was with people called a the

967
00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:40,270
mega guru put me in these group of the

968
00:39:44,210 --> 00:39:42,520
big sort of businessman who are linked

969
00:39:46,590 --> 00:39:44,220
to Israel and some would say they're the

970
00:39:49,670 --> 00:39:46,600
sort of the the rich scientists in

971
00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:49,680
America but I think that the

972
00:39:56,989 --> 00:39:52,950
as I believe Epstein was unlikely was

973
00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:56,999
connected to two Mossad she was too and

974
00:40:00,739 --> 00:39:58,410
I think that she would have been used as

975
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:00,749
the bait hi my personal feeling I think

976
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:05,249
that she helped Epstein moved in that

977
00:40:10,089 --> 00:40:07,890
kind of direction in other words where

978
00:40:13,249 --> 00:40:10,099
he wasn't just sort of the money guy

979
00:40:16,519 --> 00:40:13,259
kind of crooked money guy he was a money

980
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:16,529
guy who can actually help Israel now why

981
00:40:20,329 --> 00:40:17,730
do you say that ghilane would have been

982
00:40:21,950 --> 00:40:20,339
involved with Mossad considering what

983
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:21,960
happened to her father

984
00:40:26,930 --> 00:40:25,200
well people said she was she she was one

985
00:40:29,210 --> 00:40:26,940
of the the Maxwells who felt that her

986
00:40:30,829 --> 00:40:29,220
father was murdered but they all they

987
00:40:34,450 --> 00:40:30,839
all suspected that there was a case of

988
00:40:36,769 --> 00:40:34,460
murder and it kind of suited you know

989
00:40:39,259 --> 00:40:36,779
Maxwell's Widow at the time because it

990
00:40:41,150 --> 00:40:39,269
was such a massive insurance policy she

991
00:40:42,349 --> 00:40:41,160
was paying 60,000 a year on an insurance

992
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:42,359
policy that was a lot of money at that

993
00:40:44,329 --> 00:40:42,720
time

994
00:40:46,609 --> 00:40:44,339
so murder would have been you know

995
00:40:48,799 --> 00:40:46,619
rather than suicide or just you know

996
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:48,809
dropping dead off the boat because

997
00:40:51,650 --> 00:40:50,160
you're urinating I'm a heart attack

998
00:40:53,650 --> 00:40:51,660
I mean murder would have been the ideal

999
00:40:56,359 --> 00:40:53,660
thing that's what they were kind of

1000
00:40:58,970 --> 00:40:56,369
suggesting at the time but I personally

1001
00:41:00,319 --> 00:40:58,980
think that ghilane would not have

1002
00:41:01,759 --> 00:41:00,329
connected she might have connected to

1003
00:41:05,660 --> 00:41:01,769
other people but not most high church

1004
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,670
fathers then and what is it that you see

1005
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:07,920
when you look at Epstein that causes you

1006
00:41:14,029 --> 00:41:09,690
to think he may have been working with

1007
00:41:17,930 --> 00:41:14,039
Mossad ask yourself this question you

1008
00:41:20,839 --> 00:41:17,940
look at what Epstein was doing Epstein

1009
00:41:23,660 --> 00:41:20,849
was abusing girls on the kind of scale

1010
00:41:25,130 --> 00:41:23,670
which you know is rare he was

1011
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:25,140
trafficking girls in and out of the

1012
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:30,569
country right on his planes right and

1013
00:41:34,849 --> 00:41:32,970
what happens it's not just about

1014
00:41:36,109 --> 00:41:34,859
Epstein's money nobody gets the kind of

1015
00:41:36,759 --> 00:41:36,119
deal that he gets from the federal

1016
00:41:40,729 --> 00:41:36,769
government

1017
00:41:44,599 --> 00:41:40,739
that deal without some kind of pressure

1018
00:41:46,729 --> 00:41:44,609
from above or from very very powerful

1019
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:46,739
sources who have their own connections

1020
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:50,400
to to Israel so I think that that's why

1021
00:41:54,620 --> 00:41:52,410
that's why you got the daily look any

1022
00:41:56,539 --> 00:41:54,630
other guy who is just a pedophile right

1023
00:41:59,359 --> 00:41:56,549
and doesn't matter was a billionaire

1024
00:42:00,440 --> 00:41:59,369
pedophile or not would have gone down it

1025
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:00,450
wouldn't matter if it had the best

1026
00:42:03,620 --> 00:42:02,249
lawyers the world the evidence was the

1027
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:03,630
evidence was devastating

1028
00:42:07,790 --> 00:42:06,450
against him all these girls and of

1029
00:42:09,620 --> 00:42:07,800
course they hired private detectives

1030
00:42:11,390 --> 00:42:09,630
they harassed the families all of that

1031
00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:11,400
you'll hear all of that story but you've

1032
00:42:15,140 --> 00:42:13,110
got to ask yourself the question because

1033
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:15,150
I'm slapping the wrists nobody gets a

1034
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:17,670
slap in the wrist now because of me to

1035
00:42:21,470 --> 00:42:19,920
movement and all things changed and I

1036
00:42:25,490 --> 00:42:21,480
think because of some of the journalism

1037
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:25,500
involved in Florida that really that's

1038
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:28,410
where things began to service our most

1039
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:29,970
what some people think what changed is

1040
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:30,930
administrations

1041
00:42:38,540 --> 00:42:35,280
so under Bush and Obama he had

1042
00:42:41,450 --> 00:42:38,550
sufficient connections to keep him out

1043
00:42:44,660 --> 00:42:41,460
of jail and under Trump II did not it's

1044
00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:44,670
possible it's interesting theory III

1045
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:46,230
don't know

1046
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:49,530
I would suggest is probably slightly

1047
00:42:53,630 --> 00:42:51,690
flawed because if you really look at it

1048
00:42:57,500 --> 00:42:53,640
and if you look at the fact that Kushner

1049
00:43:00,560 --> 00:42:57,510
Wright who's from son-in-law there's a

1050
00:43:02,380 --> 00:43:00,570
family friend of Netanyahu the Trump is

1051
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:02,390
surrounded by some of the leading

1052
00:43:07,220 --> 00:43:05,610
scientists in America like Sheldon

1053
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:07,230
Adelson he moves he does everything

1054
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:09,330
Israel wants so I don't think that would

1055
00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:11,250
be the case at all these sort of

1056
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:13,670
pressures come from other sort of angles

1057
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:16,410
so within the federal government might

1058
00:43:19,340 --> 00:43:17,370
have come from the intelligence

1059
00:43:23,060 --> 00:43:19,350
community when they were sort of told

1060
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:23,070
lay off because it's not an ally and if

1061
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:25,890
our friend Epstein right they're saying

1062
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:28,890
to the CIA and through the CIA to the

1063
00:43:32,990 --> 00:43:31,200
federal government look you can't take

1064
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:33,000
this guy down because this guy is just

1065
00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:34,890
too important for Israel he's doing

1066
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:36,540
things that you don't know about right

1067
00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:38,490
now maybe he was nice doing business for

1068
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:40,260
the Saudis he didn't notice Saudi Arabia

1069
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:45,210
he was a friend of mvs like maxvill he

1070
00:43:49,010 --> 00:43:46,800
is maybe laundering money for some very

1071
00:43:50,690 --> 00:43:49,020
important people I know they're also

1072
00:43:52,010 --> 00:43:50,700
important to know that kind of thing

1073
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:52,020
that's that's what intelligence

1074
00:43:56,210 --> 00:43:53,730
intelligence services build

1075
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:56,220
informational people they build files

1076
00:44:00,110 --> 00:43:58,410
and so the more fuzz you can build and

1077
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:00,120
he was providing girls for people all

1078
00:44:04,070 --> 00:44:02,010
over the place exactly that's how I was

1079
00:44:07,270 --> 00:44:04,080
gonna add is that he perhaps had the

1080
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:07,280
wrong people in compromising positions

1081
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:10,530
that's they did not want to be disclosed

1082
00:44:13,970 --> 00:44:12,210
I would say that's probably another

1083
00:44:17,060 --> 00:44:13,980
factor I'd say there are probably

1084
00:44:17,460 --> 00:44:17,070
multiple factors and I'd love to know

1085
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:17,470
where

1086
00:44:24,060 --> 00:44:20,800
all the material is because this man was

1087
00:44:25,710 --> 00:44:24,070
meticulous and so therefore they're the

1088
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:25,720
probably files or audio files video

1089
00:44:31,410 --> 00:44:27,250
files were are they had a lot of

1090
00:44:32,730 --> 00:44:31,420
different setups I mean I'd say French

1091
00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:32,740
intelligence probably have already

1092
00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:35,140
raided his apartments in Paris because

1093
00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:36,609
the French would sort of want to know

1094
00:44:41,849 --> 00:44:39,220
because he boasted at one stage about a

1095
00:44:46,740 --> 00:44:41,859
very leading figure another name this

1096
00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:46,750
person who provided twin girls for a

1097
00:44:50,370 --> 00:44:48,790
night for him for his birthday and had

1098
00:44:53,849 --> 00:44:50,380
them flown in from Paris and then flown

1099
00:44:55,650 --> 00:44:53,859
back the next day so you know there are

1100
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:55,660
a lot of people at Marksville are the

1101
00:45:00,300 --> 00:44:57,970
Epstein conceit can even see the way you

1102
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:00,310
just almost instinctively go to Maxwell

1103
00:45:05,730 --> 00:45:03,490
that Epstein new information about that

1104
00:45:07,620 --> 00:45:05,740
nobody else did it was devalue able to

1105
00:45:09,359 --> 00:45:07,630
intelligence services and then the two

1106
00:45:12,750 --> 00:45:09,369
other ways that you can confuse the two

1107
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:12,760
is their debt as their death was it

1108
00:45:17,730 --> 00:45:15,119
suicide was it murder

1109
00:45:19,710 --> 00:45:17,740
mysterious that's guy I just called I

1110
00:45:23,310 --> 00:45:19,720
called Epstein stay at the mysterious

1111
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,320
death because I never believed necessary

1112
00:45:27,780 --> 00:45:25,119
an official sorts this very often

1113
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:27,790
official sources are not that

1114
00:45:32,310 --> 00:45:30,250
well-informed and really haven't done

1115
00:45:34,260 --> 00:45:32,320
the kind of due diligence that might be

1116
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:34,270
necessary I mean if an intelligence

1117
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:35,440
service really wants to get rid of you

1118
00:45:38,460 --> 00:45:36,880
there's one thing about it very few

1119
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:38,470
people are going to know that they did

1120
00:45:42,180 --> 00:45:40,450
it but that's why they're some of them

1121
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:42,190
are so good at it

1122
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:44,170
but the Russians are not caught because

1123
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:47,010
they they were using the kind of

1124
00:45:52,620 --> 00:45:51,490
materials that series traces but seems

1125
00:45:54,990 --> 00:45:52,630
like there's a disconnect between

1126
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:55,000
justice and the intelligence community

1127
00:45:59,640 --> 00:45:56,800
need then perhaps because bottom line is

1128
00:46:02,910 --> 00:45:59,650
justice is the one who chose to go back

1129
00:46:05,210 --> 00:46:02,920
after him and arrest him in charge him

1130
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:05,220
and then ultimately the court denying a

1131
00:46:12,540 --> 00:46:08,710
50 million dollar bail suggestion and

1132
00:46:15,089 --> 00:46:12,550
then you know what why why was it

1133
00:46:17,550 --> 00:46:15,099
pursued at the time it was pursued you

1134
00:46:19,140 --> 00:46:17,560
make a very good point and it's not it's

1135
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:19,150
not the James Bond world the

1136
00:46:24,359 --> 00:46:22,089
intelligence world it's dirty and also

1137
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:24,369
it uses techniques I mean the honey trap

1138
00:46:30,579 --> 00:46:28,690
is famous way of compromising people I

1139
00:46:33,370 --> 00:46:30,589
mean the IRA used

1140
00:46:35,950 --> 00:46:33,380
the batter Meinhof used it and in

1141
00:46:38,380 --> 00:46:35,960
teleservices use it at a very very high

1142
00:46:41,650 --> 00:46:38,390
clip and the Russians have always been

1143
00:46:43,539 --> 00:46:41,660
using the that kind of technique of

1144
00:46:46,180 --> 00:46:43,549
putting women and plays to compromise

1145
00:46:48,940 --> 00:46:46,190
people and then videotaping it or audio

1146
00:46:51,549 --> 00:46:48,950
and or else just getting out for Davis

1147
00:46:53,380 --> 00:46:51,559
from the women involved so this is the

1148
00:46:54,940 --> 00:46:53,390
kind of thing that Maxwell did and it's

1149
00:46:58,120 --> 00:46:54,950
the kind of thing that Epstein was doing

1150
00:46:59,979 --> 00:46:58,130
you're right that didn't tell it did the

1151
00:47:02,380 --> 00:46:59,989
I suppose justice comes out of it much

1152
00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:02,390
better but not that much better because

1153
00:47:08,259 --> 00:47:04,609
let's be honest they give a slap on the

1154
00:47:10,569 --> 00:47:08,269
wrist in Florida and not really is just

1155
00:47:12,459 --> 00:47:10,579
absolutely incredible when you think of

1156
00:47:15,069 --> 00:47:12,469
what he did and how he was able to walk

1157
00:47:17,380 --> 00:47:15,079
away well you're an expert on

1158
00:47:19,509 --> 00:47:17,390
intelligence so I'm just curious I mean

1159
00:47:22,779 --> 00:47:19,519
do you really believe that it's possible

1160
00:47:27,099 --> 00:47:22,789
that US intelligence can infiltrate a

1161
00:47:28,390 --> 00:47:27,109
federal prison and assassinate someone

1162
00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:28,400
like that

1163
00:47:33,430 --> 00:47:30,319
I think the intelligence services are

1164
00:47:37,390 --> 00:47:33,440
capable of a lot more than we imagine

1165
00:47:39,489 --> 00:47:37,400
let's put it this way Israel Israel's

1166
00:47:41,380 --> 00:47:39,499
Mossad practices all kinds of because

1167
00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:41,390
they have to they practice all kinds of

1168
00:47:43,870 --> 00:47:42,710
ways of killing getting in and out of

1169
00:47:46,059 --> 00:47:43,880
places and probably some of the most

1170
00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:46,069
secret places that you would take a look

1171
00:47:50,559 --> 00:47:48,529
at that either assassinated Palestinians

1172
00:47:52,589 --> 00:47:50,569
over the years that killed him in hotels

1173
00:47:55,180 --> 00:47:52,599
who killed them in hotel rooms that

1174
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:55,190
killed them a lot of other places right

1175
00:48:00,749 --> 00:47:57,680
the Killman prison said look listen the

1176
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:00,759
one thing about intelligence services is

1177
00:48:06,670 --> 00:48:05,359
like North Side they're experts getting

1178
00:48:08,130 --> 00:48:06,680
rid of their enemies and that's one of

1179
00:48:10,569 --> 00:48:08,140
that's why I'm all set it's more feared

1180
00:48:13,209 --> 00:48:10,579
and a lot of other intelligence services

1181
00:48:15,969 --> 00:48:13,219
you ask the Palestinians you ask people

1182
00:48:17,319 --> 00:48:15,979
who are connected sources connected to

1183
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:17,329
that part of the world they will tell

1184
00:48:21,099 --> 00:48:19,249
you the Mossad is all was that big

1185
00:48:23,799 --> 00:48:21,109
threat in the dark you know and I would

1186
00:48:26,620 --> 00:48:23,809
say probably the CIA KGB is the same KGB

1187
00:48:29,950 --> 00:48:26,630
has been developing assassination

1188
00:48:32,109 --> 00:48:29,960
techniques for well over a century yeah

1189
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:32,119
it's very very easy for me to believe in

1190
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:35,690
Russia and in Israel I have a hard time

1191
00:48:40,089 --> 00:48:38,089
believing it in America yes I mean I

1192
00:48:42,810 --> 00:48:40,099
don't think it mean - CIA would have no

1193
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:42,820
reason anyway to kill Epstein

1194
00:48:46,050 --> 00:48:45,250
they wouldn't but I'd say they knew

1195
00:48:48,510 --> 00:48:46,060
about Epstein

1196
00:48:50,490 --> 00:48:48,520
if Epstein was involved with Mossad if I

1197
00:48:52,260 --> 00:48:50,500
mean it's about specular I mean you

1198
00:48:54,030 --> 00:48:52,270
can't see was because there's no

1199
00:48:59,580 --> 00:48:54,040
evidence there at the moment but it's a

1200
00:49:01,650 --> 00:48:59,590
reasonable it's a reasonable solution so

1201
00:49:04,830 --> 00:49:01,660
tell us the parallels tell us briefly

1202
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:04,840
about the time when you were strongly

1203
00:49:10,830 --> 00:49:08,370
considering writing a book about Epstein

1204
00:49:12,660 --> 00:49:10,840
2010 and you had a couple people that

1205
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:12,670
had come to you with some interesting

1206
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:16,810
information lady approached me she was a

1207
00:49:23,430 --> 00:49:21,970
socialite from the Florida area I named

1208
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:23,440
her because I have no right to name her

1209
00:49:28,980 --> 00:49:26,530
and I wouldn't permission but she's very

1210
00:49:31,710 --> 00:49:28,990
wealthy socialite and she approached me

1211
00:49:34,020 --> 00:49:31,720
and said look a friend of mine has read

1212
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:34,030
your book and Maxwell and I would like

1213
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:36,240
you to write a book on Jeffrey Epstein

1214
00:49:41,940 --> 00:49:38,890
do you know about him and I said yeah I

1215
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:41,950
know some things about him but yeah I've

1216
00:49:48,210 --> 00:49:44,290
read the stuff in the paper so you know

1217
00:49:50,070 --> 00:49:48,220
I read the the Florida coverage he said

1218
00:49:53,420 --> 00:49:50,080
yeah but I've got a lot of stuff and

1219
00:49:56,220 --> 00:49:53,430
I've got a lot of sources I'm police

1220
00:49:58,440 --> 00:49:56,230
legal I can provide you with a lot of

1221
00:50:00,750 --> 00:49:58,450
documents I said okay let me have a look

1222
00:50:02,010 --> 00:50:00,760
at this material you have search give me

1223
00:50:04,290 --> 00:50:02,020
a large box

1224
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:04,300
I went see her and she'd an apartment in

1225
00:50:08,670 --> 00:50:06,310
Manhattan my rice

1226
00:50:13,170 --> 00:50:08,680
it'll depart she was there with her her

1227
00:50:15,180 --> 00:50:13,180
dogs yeah we rich people and this is

1228
00:50:19,860 --> 00:50:15,190
soon after he had gotten done serving

1229
00:50:21,780 --> 00:50:19,870
his time yes okay and this is what's

1230
00:50:24,030 --> 00:50:21,790
interesting I I would through material

1231
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:24,040
like though a lot of this really is it's

1232
00:50:30,030 --> 00:50:27,970
kind of not very valuable because it's

1233
00:50:33,810 --> 00:50:30,040
it's just sourced it's easy to sources

1234
00:50:36,930 --> 00:50:33,820
but she also had four logs from his

1235
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:36,940
house and big house in Manhattan which

1236
00:50:41,670 --> 00:50:38,530
let me see the kind of people who were

1237
00:50:43,770 --> 00:50:41,680
phoning him very very famous people and

1238
00:50:45,900 --> 00:50:43,780
also the flight logs and the flight logs

1239
00:50:47,490 --> 00:50:45,910
particular intrigued me because I wanted

1240
00:50:49,820 --> 00:50:47,500
to know who was he bringing in and out

1241
00:50:52,820 --> 00:50:49,830
in these planes we were the girls

1242
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:52,830
but it was so so difficult to actually

1243
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:55,290
match the names because you're just

1244
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:57,810
dealing with first names but then I

1245
00:51:01,550 --> 00:50:59,520
began talking to other people and I

1246
00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:01,560
began looking at all the a lot of the

1247
00:51:08,690 --> 00:51:06,420
affidavits and why hi this guy could

1248
00:51:10,940 --> 00:51:08,700
possibly I've got a slap on the wrist

1249
00:51:12,980 --> 00:51:10,950
for what he did and she wanted you to

1250
00:51:15,500 --> 00:51:12,990
expose the fact that he was exploiting

1251
00:51:18,170 --> 00:51:15,510
underage girls was that it yes and I

1252
00:51:21,260 --> 00:51:18,180
suspected also that she had some kind of

1253
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:21,270
history with him possibly he was her

1254
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:23,010
lover at some time in the past and maybe

1255
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:25,530
jilted her she never really said so but

1256
00:51:28,670 --> 00:51:26,970
it was just a suspicion I had and we

1257
00:51:30,380 --> 00:51:28,680
didn't it's almost like a kind of

1258
00:51:32,570 --> 00:51:30,390
unspoken thing we didn't like to talk

1259
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:32,580
about it you know what I mean because

1260
00:51:37,070 --> 00:51:34,530
what is really that important what did

1261
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:37,080
she say about the age of the girls she

1262
00:51:40,490 --> 00:51:38,730
knew all the girls she knew these were

1263
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:40,500
all teams of girls little girls a lot of

1264
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:43,710
them right these are still girls and she

1265
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:46,290
knew all about his place and in Florida

1266
00:51:51,350 --> 00:51:48,930
the youngest we've ever heard is 14 did

1267
00:51:53,780 --> 00:51:51,360
she balloon she was talking about that

1268
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:53,790
age group 12 14 these review no skilled

1269
00:52:00,890 --> 00:51:56,720
girls and she also was concerned about

1270
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:00,900
ghilane maxvill because she knew from a

1271
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:02,880
lot of the affidavits a lot of the legal

1272
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:05,040
stuff the ghilane maxvill was not only

1273
00:52:09,890 --> 00:52:07,530
involved as a as a fixer recruiting

1274
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:09,900
these girls but she was also involved in

1275
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:13,170
sexual activity with some of them and

1276
00:52:18,110 --> 00:52:15,450
the one thing about this woman was that

1277
00:52:21,830 --> 00:52:18,120
she phoned me one morning and a very

1278
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:21,840
very distressed state and she'd been in

1279
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:25,200
Manhattan in her apartment and someone

1280
00:52:33,650 --> 00:52:30,210
had used a very powerful laser to put

1281
00:52:37,190 --> 00:52:33,660
the image of a penis on the ceiling of

1282
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:37,200
her bedroom I said I said I mean have

1283
00:52:40,670 --> 00:52:38,640
you been dreaming is there something

1284
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:40,680
going on here said no no no and said I

1285
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:42,210
know the shape of it because it's the

1286
00:52:47,330 --> 00:52:45,330
same as Epstein spins and she'd send me

1287
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:47,340
sort of stuff from the the court filing

1288
00:52:52,820 --> 00:52:50,370
which he had a very unusual shaped penis

1289
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:52,830
right so I thought well look Amanda

1290
00:52:57,260 --> 00:52:55,890
better check this woman it's just you

1291
00:53:00,980 --> 00:52:57,270
know out there somewhere

1292
00:53:03,050 --> 00:53:00,990
that's about the source absolutely so I

1293
00:53:04,850 --> 00:53:03,060
went I talked to someone who

1294
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:04,860
is let's say connected to the

1295
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:06,210
intelligence community in a very

1296
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:09,450
interesting way and I said is this

1297
00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:11,730
possible and he said be like sort of

1298
00:53:18,230 --> 00:53:14,460
scoping this place odd he said but

1299
00:53:20,260 --> 00:53:18,240
lasered for that purpose only exists

1300
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:20,270
within the military industrial complex

1301
00:53:28,100 --> 00:53:23,910
so the person who's done this has to

1302
00:53:30,050 --> 00:53:28,110
have some very very serious friends now

1303
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:30,060
she didn't want to phone me the FBI but

1304
00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:31,680
I know she phoned thee this should the

1305
00:53:38,060 --> 00:53:34,110
sheriff and in Miami and all this kind

1306
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:38,070
of social security people Miami but as I

1307
00:53:41,330 --> 00:53:39,570
was looking at Marksville I began to

1308
00:53:43,190 --> 00:53:41,340
discover and my wife is very unhappy

1309
00:53:45,230 --> 00:53:43,200
about me doing the Maxwell for the

1310
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:45,240
Epstein book because she'd gone through

1311
00:53:47,750 --> 00:53:46,890
the whole Maxwell thing the threats and

1312
00:53:50,330 --> 00:53:47,760
all the rest of it

1313
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:50,340
and he was mr. untouchable and it was a

1314
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:52,170
suspicion in my mind at the time with

1315
00:53:57,230 --> 00:53:54,690
the Glenn Maxwell connection this guy

1316
00:54:02,090 --> 00:53:57,240
could be serious trouble for me serious

1317
00:54:03,770 --> 00:54:02,100
trouble and I didn't I didn't sort of

1318
00:54:06,050 --> 00:54:03,780
recent poison he was involved in tellus

1319
00:54:09,140 --> 00:54:06,060
community but I knew that I knew he

1320
00:54:10,820 --> 00:54:09,150
could bring people to my life that you

1321
00:54:13,580 --> 00:54:10,830
know might make my life very very

1322
00:54:18,380 --> 00:54:13,590
unpleasant and I discovered that he'd

1323
00:54:21,130 --> 00:54:18,390
learned I was working on on a book I was

1324
00:54:24,130 --> 00:54:21,140
told that he and Glenn Maxwell

1325
00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:24,140
discovered that I was writing this book

1326
00:54:29,390 --> 00:54:27,420
so nicely had you actually started on it

1327
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:29,400
or you're doing I was doing they're

1328
00:54:32,660 --> 00:54:31,290
still doing the research but as a year

1329
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:32,670
into the research I mean I was doing a

1330
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:33,930
lot of work on it

1331
00:54:39,110 --> 00:54:36,480
told me a lot of people so I said to

1332
00:54:40,430 --> 00:54:39,120
this lady look because friends of mine

1333
00:54:42,530 --> 00:54:40,440
him inform me I'm not gonna get a

1334
00:54:44,990 --> 00:54:42,540
publisher because nobody's gonna take a

1335
00:54:47,300 --> 00:54:45,000
book on this guy Epstein you so many

1336
00:54:49,340 --> 00:54:47,310
contacts there's so many big-time

1337
00:54:51,740 --> 00:54:49,350
lawyers even a legal reading of a book

1338
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:51,750
on this guy is gonna cost a fortune now

1339
00:54:57,290 --> 00:54:55,770
if you would like to write if you'd like

1340
00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:57,300
this book and you're so determined you

1341
00:55:01,520 --> 00:54:58,020
want to have it

1342
00:55:03,290 --> 00:55:01,530
well then finance it alright and then

1343
00:55:05,420 --> 00:55:03,300
take the profits from it I didn't mind

1344
00:55:07,850 --> 00:55:05,430
if I said I would write the book did you

1345
00:55:09,500 --> 00:55:07,860
talk to publishers about it I talked

1346
00:55:11,300 --> 00:55:09,510
indirectly I talk to friends are you

1347
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:11,310
said to me listen get the hell out of

1348
00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:13,410
this one because this guy is untouchable

1349
00:55:16,790 --> 00:55:15,390
nobody wants to write anything about him

1350
00:55:18,980 --> 00:55:16,800
take a look at all the news babe

1351
00:55:20,420 --> 00:55:18,990
who really writes anything about our

1352
00:55:22,070 --> 00:55:20,430
friend Epstein

1353
00:55:23,690 --> 00:55:22,080
this guy is just too powerful a figure

1354
00:55:25,550 --> 00:55:23,700
and he's got the kind of connections

1355
00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:25,560
that you don't really want to be close

1356
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:28,200
to now I wonder where those connections

1357
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:32,490
were mob connections or intelligence

1358
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:34,770
connections but I wasn't sure which so

1359
00:55:38,690 --> 00:55:37,050
my wife said to me no give me get out of

1360
00:55:40,580 --> 00:55:38,700
this and I said look I'll give this lady

1361
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,590
a chance to make a decision if she wants

1362
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:42,720
to finance the book I will go ahead with

1363
00:55:47,150 --> 00:55:44,160
it so I met her and her husband in a

1364
00:55:48,590 --> 00:55:47,160
place in the Hamptons and she said well

1365
00:55:49,490 --> 00:55:48,600
let me think about it and I'll get back

1366
00:55:51,350 --> 00:55:49,500
to you in two weeks

1367
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:51,360
well she never got back to me so as much

1368
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:54,240
how much did you need I think I reckon

1369
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:55,770
would have taken me about two years that

1370
00:56:00,080 --> 00:55:57,210
have needed to do a lot of traveling

1371
00:56:02,060 --> 00:56:00,090
that it needs travelled of Israel iris I

1372
00:56:03,830 --> 00:56:02,070
was thinking about some of the the

1373
00:56:07,490 --> 00:56:03,840
places abroad that would have been

1374
00:56:09,890 --> 00:56:07,500
valuable in terms of talking to certain

1375
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:09,900
intelligence figures that I know to

1376
00:56:15,650 --> 00:56:12,810
others so I I reckoned of read in the

1377
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:15,660
book would have taken about 150 150

1378
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:18,330
thousand yeah did she think that he was

1379
00:56:21,980 --> 00:56:20,490
notice to pay people off as well didn't

1380
00:56:24,500 --> 00:56:21,990
had to pay people off you'd have had to

1381
00:56:26,690 --> 00:56:24,510
buy I mean the best lawyers to lawyer

1382
00:56:29,660 --> 00:56:26,700
this book did she think that he was

1383
00:56:31,490 --> 00:56:29,670
connected to Israeli intelligence no she

1384
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:31,500
she just thought he was the worst

1385
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:33,690
pedophile she'd ever heard all over come

1386
00:56:40,850 --> 00:56:35,970
across but she she had a she had a

1387
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:40,860
distinct hatred for this man she did she

1388
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:44,880
did she tell you any story did she tell

1389
00:56:51,020 --> 00:56:47,130
you any stories that we haven't heard

1390
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:51,030
yet no think about this lady was that

1391
00:56:56,510 --> 00:56:53,970
she had she been talking to a lot of

1392
00:56:59,180 --> 00:56:56,520
people who had been investigating this

1393
00:57:02,960 --> 00:56:59,190
isn't in Florida so she had been aware

1394
00:57:04,910 --> 00:57:02,970
of a lot of the stories of the girls and

1395
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:04,920
I think she felt really bad about it and

1396
00:57:08,660 --> 00:57:06,570
she felt that no one was going to get to

1397
00:57:11,090 --> 00:57:08,670
this guy this guy was just impossible

1398
00:57:13,730 --> 00:57:11,100
right to take down so she said to me you

1399
00:57:15,260 --> 00:57:13,740
took me took down Maxwell but think

1400
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:15,270
about the exact had done Maxwell after

1401
00:57:19,010 --> 00:57:17,490
he was dead but I taken down marks all

1402
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:19,020
the time he was alive I don't think I

1403
00:57:22,940 --> 00:57:21,450
would be alive what about this I've been

1404
00:57:24,410 --> 00:57:22,950
publishing this stuff that I published

1405
00:57:26,330 --> 00:57:24,420
later but Maxwell I don't think I would

1406
00:57:28,220 --> 00:57:26,340
have kind of survived it what do you

1407
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:28,230
think about this James Patterson book

1408
00:57:30,609 --> 00:57:30,330
that was written on Epstein about five

1409
00:57:33,789 --> 00:57:30,619
years

1410
00:57:40,269 --> 00:57:33,799
go yeah I haven't read it it was it was

1411
00:57:43,089 --> 00:57:40,279
fiction no no I was a doe kind of I've

1412
00:57:45,430 --> 00:57:43,099
read it I haven't read it I've read it

1413
00:57:47,289 --> 00:57:45,440
it actually contains frankly about half

1414
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:47,299
of the book is simply transcripts

1415
00:57:50,620 --> 00:57:49,130
transcript from depositions

1416
00:57:53,289 --> 00:57:50,630
well loser there was a troll there you

1417
00:57:56,769 --> 00:57:53,299
know those are all accessible yeah I

1418
00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:56,779
remember after after Florida the stuff

1419
00:58:01,420 --> 00:57:58,490
was still available you could have

1420
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:01,430
talked to the I'd say privately talked

1421
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:02,930
to the law one of the lawyers I know he

1422
00:58:06,999 --> 00:58:04,640
affirms some of the girls and you would

1423
00:58:09,370 --> 00:58:07,009
have got access to that I read a lot of

1424
00:58:11,970 --> 00:58:09,380
that material I wanted more than that I

1425
00:58:16,210 --> 00:58:11,980
I wanted to sort of tear apart the whole

1426
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:16,220
ghilane Maxwell and also the Glenn

1427
00:58:21,430 --> 00:58:19,130
Maxwell Epstein Nexus and I also wanted

1428
00:58:23,829 --> 00:58:21,440
to tear apart the the financial world to

1429
00:58:25,630 --> 00:58:23,839
find out where his money came from yeah

1430
00:58:27,279 --> 00:58:25,640
I was talking to various people about

1431
00:58:28,450 --> 00:58:27,289
that as well to find out how he could

1432
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:28,460
and also how I could have moved around

1433
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:30,970
the world I needed I needed access to

1434
00:58:35,380 --> 00:58:33,920
intelligence figures to tell me how he

1435
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:35,390
could have functioned in the way he did

1436
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:38,089
because my belief was that this guy has

1437
00:58:44,109 --> 00:58:42,170
this guy had some some power and he's

1438
00:58:45,460 --> 00:58:44,119
got some Poole was very very important

1439
00:58:47,739 --> 00:58:45,470
people and it's not just in the United

1440
00:58:50,979 --> 00:58:47,749
States let's go back to a weird subject

1441
00:58:53,829 --> 00:58:50,989
and that is his penis I find it

1442
00:58:55,210 --> 00:58:53,839
interesting simply because this guy was

1443
00:58:57,190 --> 00:58:55,220
a sex addict

1444
00:59:00,009 --> 00:58:57,200
I mean you know the stories are three

1445
00:59:02,589 --> 00:59:00,019
orgasms a day three massages a day yeah

1446
00:59:05,049 --> 00:59:02,599
but you actually saw his penis I think

1447
00:59:07,539 --> 00:59:05,059
you just described it as grotesque yeah

1448
00:59:09,099 --> 00:59:07,549
it was a very very strange shape someone

1449
00:59:11,979 --> 00:59:09,109
said it kind of looked like an egg you

1450
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:11,989
know it was a very strange shape was

1451
00:59:17,259 --> 00:59:13,970
small but it was bulbous you know kind

1452
00:59:18,819 --> 00:59:17,269
of it was a it was weird even the girls

1453
00:59:20,769 --> 00:59:18,829
all the girls testified when they

1454
00:59:23,140 --> 00:59:20,779
testified in court they showed him a

1455
00:59:27,210 --> 00:59:23,150
photograph of the court was a photograph

1456
00:59:29,620 --> 00:59:27,220
from the affidavits and the girls all

1457
00:59:31,479 --> 00:59:29,630
remarked that was something they ordered

1458
00:59:34,479 --> 00:59:31,489
marked about because it really creeped

1459
00:59:38,380 --> 00:59:34,489
them out and and so was this picture

1460
00:59:40,210 --> 00:59:38,390
taken by the police yes yes yes it did

1461
00:59:41,979 --> 00:59:40,220
and then it turns out the girls were

1462
00:59:43,570 --> 00:59:41,989
able to identify it and so that was

1463
00:59:46,430 --> 00:59:43,580
absolutely because was extended

1464
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:46,440
and going back to the penis on the

1465
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:49,130
ceiling you're saying that this laser

1466
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:52,890
image was not of a normal penis it was

1467
00:59:57,770 --> 00:59:54,960
of a penis shaped like his she

1468
00:59:59,030 --> 00:59:57,780
recognized it she said to me I knew

1469
01:00:00,920 --> 00:59:59,040
immediately and she said that's what

1470
01:00:02,690 --> 01:00:00,930
really scared me because I knew I knew

1471
01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:02,700
who did this so that that means she

1472
01:00:06,020 --> 01:00:04,740
probably had slept with him because they

1473
01:00:07,670 --> 01:00:06,030
wouldn't know that she could have known

1474
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:07,680
what his penis looked like yes it's

1475
01:00:14,510 --> 01:00:11,130
possible or else she saw the same

1476
01:00:17,690 --> 01:00:14,520
photograph that that I saw yeah but

1477
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:17,700
still so bizarre because you have two

1478
01:00:22,970 --> 01:00:20,880
eyes I was shocked at the time I thought

1479
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:22,980
look this this is not real that this is

1480
01:00:27,860 --> 01:00:25,650
just you know this is a fiction here and

1481
01:00:30,470 --> 01:00:27,870
if this is the case I better get well ID

1482
01:00:34,310 --> 01:00:30,480
from this ladies you know well as you

1483
01:00:36,740 --> 01:00:34,320
look back on on that story and on her or

1484
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:36,750
what do you think I think I think it

1485
01:00:40,730 --> 01:00:39,330
probably happened she wasn't someone to

1486
01:00:43,250 --> 01:00:40,740
kind of lie about anything it should no

1487
01:00:45,170 --> 01:00:43,260
reason to and she wasn't sort of taking

1488
01:00:46,700 --> 01:00:45,180
any sleeping medications and the fact

1489
01:00:49,540 --> 01:00:46,710
that she was scared of joining the FBI

1490
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:49,550
which had phoned me and she phoned oh I

1491
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:52,050
think one or two security sources in

1492
01:00:56,990 --> 01:00:54,960
Florida meant that she was she really

1493
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:57,000
meant business and she was frightened

1494
01:01:01,910 --> 01:00:59,520
and I think she had reason to be and he

1495
01:01:04,340 --> 01:01:01,920
knew by the way that's when we find out

1496
01:01:07,220 --> 01:01:04,350
about me writing the book he found out

1497
01:01:08,740 --> 01:01:07,230
through a friend of hers and also there

1498
01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:08,750
was something else that I came across

1499
01:01:15,170 --> 01:01:11,040
there's someone else he was researching

1500
01:01:17,060 --> 01:01:15,180
a book on on him at that time I can't

1501
01:01:22,010 --> 01:01:17,070
really reveal the name of the person but

1502
01:01:24,950 --> 01:01:22,020
that person visited epstein and then

1503
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:24,960
stopped writing the book and this lady

1504
01:01:30,980 --> 01:01:27,450
said to me she was bought off she said I

1505
01:01:32,420 --> 01:01:30,990
have absolutely no doubt about it so you

1506
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:32,430
know a lot of strange things happen to

1507
01:01:37,220 --> 01:01:34,770
Rhonda testing how do you evaluate alan

1508
01:01:42,290 --> 01:01:37,230
dershowitz at this point including the

1509
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:42,300
allegation that he also partook with the

1510
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:44,730
allegation is there you know you can't

1511
01:01:49,900 --> 01:01:46,530
just sort of walk away from it

1512
01:01:52,340 --> 01:01:49,910
I think the interesting thing will be

1513
01:01:54,620 --> 01:01:52,350
where this goes from here whether it's

1514
01:01:56,780 --> 01:01:54,630
about sort of Prince Andrew or it's

1515
01:02:00,590 --> 01:01:56,790
about Dershowitz or others I mean

1516
01:02:04,310 --> 01:02:00,600
the royal family it's absolutely off as

1517
01:02:06,470 --> 01:02:04,320
a story it really is because you know

1518
01:02:08,510 --> 01:02:06,480
they can't they can't escape it because

1519
01:02:09,950 --> 01:02:08,520
the Daily Mail has been on this story

1520
01:02:12,350 --> 01:02:09,960
uninterestingly by the way

1521
01:02:13,820 --> 01:02:12,360
Vicki Ward the Daily Mail and the New

1522
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:13,830
York Post you have to give credits in

1523
01:02:18,050 --> 01:02:15,330
some of these papers before they the

1524
01:02:22,010 --> 01:02:18,060
recent very good journalism out of

1525
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:22,020
Florida Miami Herald the post was

1526
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:24,090
following not a lot of stuff this was of

1527
01:02:28,610 --> 01:02:27,210
course owned by Murdoch and you know

1528
01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:28,620
they were following up on this stuff

1529
01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:30,960
about Epstein and so was the Daily Mail

1530
01:02:34,670 --> 01:02:32,880
they were added all the time and so they

1531
01:02:37,010 --> 01:02:34,680
haven't stopped and of course they're

1532
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:37,020
holding the Prince Andrei's feet to the

1533
01:02:41,270 --> 01:02:39,210
fire and he's saying well no it never

1534
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:41,280
actually happened but all these people

1535
01:02:46,580 --> 01:02:43,970
one of the things that shocks me is that

1536
01:02:49,820 --> 01:02:46,590
there's a very little focus on the fact

1537
01:02:51,740 --> 01:02:49,830
that you know Epstein like maxvill was a

1538
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:51,750
disreputable figure but you've got to

1539
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:53,370
say to yourself how disreputable were

1540
01:02:58,430 --> 01:02:56,010
the people who are around his life who

1541
01:03:01,220 --> 01:02:58,440
find it convenient to sort of socialize

1542
01:03:04,790 --> 01:03:01,230
with them the organizations that took

1543
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:04,800
money from him funding from him and also

1544
01:03:08,990 --> 01:03:07,410
they knew I mean after the whole Florida

1545
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:09,000
thing they own you and then their people

1546
01:03:12,620 --> 01:03:11,010
sort of boasting all like you know

1547
01:03:15,050 --> 01:03:12,630
trunks heavily like young girls you know

1548
01:03:16,910 --> 01:03:15,060
I mean come on we would they saw them

1549
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:16,920
and the company of girls that you know

1550
01:03:21,860 --> 01:03:18,690
we're younger than their daughters a lot

1551
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:21,870
of these people there was all the rumor

1552
01:03:25,610 --> 01:03:23,610
about him anyway you start there but

1553
01:03:26,540 --> 01:03:25,620
well after Florida anybody was involved

1554
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:26,550
with him after Florida

1555
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:28,170
journalists are read looking they should

1556
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:29,490
look at the people who are involved with

1557
01:03:34,910 --> 01:03:31,170
him after that they were still on his

1558
01:03:38,300 --> 01:03:34,920
planes and say why well speaking of that

1559
01:03:40,820 --> 01:03:38,310
when do you believe that ghilane cut

1560
01:03:42,650 --> 01:03:40,830
ties with him if at all I don't think

1561
01:03:44,300 --> 01:03:42,660
she cut ties with him I think you've

1562
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:44,310
also got to ask yourself the question

1563
01:03:49,250 --> 01:03:48,450
why was she never picked up not this is

1564
01:03:51,230 --> 01:03:49,260
an interesting one

1565
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:51,240
all the evidence if you look at the

1566
01:03:54,050 --> 01:03:52,650
evidence from Florida and look at all

1567
01:03:56,450 --> 01:03:54,060
those affidavits what all those girls

1568
01:03:58,430 --> 01:03:56,460
have said if you were a prosecutor would

1569
01:04:01,570 --> 01:03:58,440
you not have picked her up told her in

1570
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:01,580
put her under right interrogation

1571
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:03,450
presented her with the evidence would

1572
01:04:06,830 --> 01:04:05,010
you not be building a case against her

1573
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:06,840
now they're all saying oh maybe in

1574
01:04:12,470 --> 01:04:08,970
backgrounds a case being built but wide

1575
01:04:15,110 --> 01:04:12,480
like Epstein why wasn't she arrested and

1576
01:04:17,470 --> 01:04:15,120
where do you think she is today I don't

1577
01:04:20,030 --> 01:04:17,480
know but I'll tell you something

1578
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:20,040
she has to ask yourself two questions

1579
01:04:29,180 --> 01:04:23,970
right one are they coming for me or two

1580
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:29,190
are my backers powerful enough to make